Are they not ashamed to release this at such price? D15 was released at 89EUR

usinameAre they not ashamed to release this at such price? D15 was released at 89EUR

D15 was released 10 years ago. Inflation has happened since

usinameAre they not ashamed to release this at such price? D15 was released at 89EUR

This occupies a niche within a niche, its not going to be a volume seller.

aktpuD15 was released 10 years ago. Inflation has happened since

How much cheaper has production gotten in the same timeframe, seeing as the production line(s?) have been churning out the same thing for 10 straight years?

usinameAre they not ashamed to release this at such price? D15 was released at 89EUR

Ah yes, all those mITX low-profile cases are just perfect shoo-ins for D15 /s

75usd is not that bad considering the L12S is usually 65usd. But I don't see how this offers much of a performance improvement at all, just clearance benefits. 6 heatpipes is nice but it doesn't look like it has any more finstack mass than the L12S, so probably underslung C14S is still kicking it to the curb. Same reason the D9L is underwhelming for its size.

And yeah, motherboard makers are getting increasingly offensive these days with VRM/M.2 heatsink design, but it's not like other 70mm coolers (Big Shuriken 3, AXP120) haven't found ways to get around it. And the original L12S is a real low bar, it really doesn't get any worse than the L12S for compatibility in all directions.

They've got money to throw around on these one-offs though (L12 Ghost S1), so kudos to them for offering more choice.

usinameAre they not ashamed to release this at such price? D15 was released at 89EUR

Noctua is more expensive + inflation.

I think if it's more silent and cooler, even 2-3°C people are going to jump on it, SFF community loves to optimize even few degrees, part of their pc building passion :)

For me, there's a lot of competition from thermalright, thermaltake etc so up to Noctua to offer superior performance and silence.

One thing is sure: Noctua's customer service and product support is the best in PC, period.

DAMN, this is not an art piece, this is an engineered product designed to move heat from the CPU. Absence of any thermal performance specification is almost an insult.

This almost looks identical to the Silverstone SST-NT06-PRO. I built a SFF and had this cooler, it was actually pretty awesome for temps. Used liquid metal.

BoggledBeagleDAMN, this is not an art piece, this is an engineered product designed to move heat from the CPU. Absence of any thermal performance specification is almost an insult.

Maybe to go the product page that is linked in the article and look at the specification?

You know, this one noctua.at/en/nh-l12sx77/specification

aktpuMaybe to go the product page that is linked in the article and look at the specification?

You know, this one noctua.at/en/nh-l12sx77/specification

I have no interest in NSPR. For example, I know that NH-U12S cooler I have can cool 200W, but they list their nspr value of this cooler 129. Totaly useless nonsense.

It is the same bull**it as if an engine manufacturer refused to list performance in kW, but developed their own proprietary performance index.

Air cooler with heatpipes and fan at 100% can be well characterised by its thermal resistance and limit of heat, at which the heatpipes start to fail. TWO CLEAR NUMBERS.

You may also just post a graph of a heat plate temperature (over ambient) dependent on heating power, from which you could read out/calculate both of these numbers.

See an example of air cooler with heatpipes performance graph I made:


Such a simple graph tells you everyhing you need to know about the thermal performance of the cooler. No need to invent some stupid performance indexes.

Thermal resistance defines the slope of the curve and maximal power the cooler can handle is an obvious critical parameter.

How a heatplate (IHS) temperature translates to the temperature of the CPU cores is a different problem and not a business of the cooler manufacturer.

I have NHL-12S on my HTPC inside silverstone Grandia 09b. Gets by for most tasks since the PC usually just sits idle or plays netflix, but I do see temps hit 100*C if I run cinebench or the kids play certain games. Need to mod a 240mm AIO into that unit soon. I dont think this new improved version will help much.

No point buying noctua when thermalright axp120-x67 is selling at 40$ with top performance on low profile cpu coolers.

stathisgtrNo point buying noctua when thermalright axp120-x67 is selling at 40$ with top performance on low profile cpu coolers.

It seems that the Noctua cooler is probably a response to the cooler you mentioned. People will be willing to pay some more money for it because of the famous brand.

Jesus, Noctua are so dated and tired at this point. I used to use them religiously but they barely move forward as a company and the competition has caught up and overtaken them, many of them also offering free socket mounting upgrades like Noctua pioneered. Even the LCP fan blades aren't exclusive to Noctua, and their excellent A12x25 fan is hard to recommend when it's so expensive and most builds need at least four of them, often more. The Phanteks T30 is almost always a far better option for the same money, and it's not like there aren't similar performing, cheaper 120x25mm options for far less money if that's a strict requirement.

I used to use Noctua's SFF coolers - I had an NH-L9i and an original NH-L12 back in the Sandy/Ivy Bridge days, but they were mediocre and expensive, the L9i suffering from lack of compatibility with future platforms too. I switched to the Silverstone Argon lineup which has always been better and cheaper. Here's an example of a $50 Silverstone AR-06 cooler that had similar specs and clearance to today's NH-L12Sx77 eleven years ago.



More recently I've been finding even better options from Thermalright, who seem to be the new darling of decent air coolers with sensible mounting hardware at fantastic prices. SI100 is my go-to but I've been impressed with the AXP120 67mm variant for really cramped shoebox mITX builds:

PhilaphlousThis almost looks identical to the Silverstone SST-NT06-PRO. I built a SFF and had this cooler, it was actually pretty awesome for temps. Used liquid metal.

Yeah, in 2013.
Noctua are a over a decade behind everyone else.

Chrispy_The Phanteks T30 is almost always a far better option for the same money, and it's not like there aren't similar performing, cheaper 120x25mm options for far less money if that's a strict requirement.

I would go even further and say the only reason to buy a Noctua over the T30 is if you don't have the extra 5mm clearance for the T30.

I have NF-A14 fans in my rig and three phanteks T30s on a rad and the T30s move more air and are quieter while moving air through significantly more obstruction. If Phanteks had a 140mm version I'd replace all my Noctua fans instantly, it's a very noticeable upgrade. They've already replaced all the 120mm Noctua fans I had.

evernessinceI would go even further and say the only reason to buy a Noctua over the T30 is if you don't have the extra 5mm clearance for the T30.

I have NF-A14 fans in my rig and three phanteks T30s on a rad and the T30s move more air and are quieter while moving air through significantly more obstruction. If Phanteks had a 140mm version I'd replace all my Noctua fans instantly, it's a very noticeable upgrade. They've already replaced all the 120mm Noctua fans I had.

The NF-A14 was a decent low-SP, high-airflow, quiet fan from 2012. Times have changed, and those fans are not as much use as they once were. Radiators are far more common, dust filtration is far more common.

The Arctic P14 Max is probably one of the best 140mm options that can push through a radiator. It's a vastly superior fan to the Noctua A14 in so many ways, including warranty, and it's just as quiet when asked to output the same paltry CFM that the A14 manages to push through any kind of heatsink or radiator, but with the option of actually getting more airflow if you need it (at half the price, too).

stathisgtrNo point buying noctua when thermalright axp120-x67 is selling at 40$ with top performance on low profile cpu coolers.

The AXP120x67 really is the new hotness, now that I've had a chance to test all 3 head to head on the 5700G. It also is by far the nicest build quality I've seen out of Thermalright, miles ahead of both their dual towers and the L12/L12S/Scythe.

TR also has the right idea by incorporating the support bar on most of their new C-type downdraft coolers to keep the cooler straightened out and rigid. My C14S after a couple years has been sagging and loosening up.

Also, anyone who believes Noctua's press release saying that the 77mm height will make for optimal thermals without "exhausting into the case" in those sandwich cases is deluding themselves. A12x15 is a solid fan but like most every other fan, it's laughably incompetent on its own at handling exhaust duty thru the heatsink and out a vented panel. Other case fans *will* have to be doing the heavy lifting - it's still a downdraft cooler.

Chrispy_The NF-A14 was a decent low-SP, high-airflow, quiet fan from 2012. Times have changed, and those fans are not as much use as they once were. Radiators are far more common, dust filtration is far more common.

The Arctic P14 Max is probably one of the best 140mm options that can push through a radiator. It's a vastly superior fan to the Noctua A14 in so many ways, including warranty, and it's just as quiet when asked to output the same paltry CFM that the A14 manages to push through any kind of heatsink or radiator, but with the option of actually getting more airflow if you need it (at half the price, too).

The NF-A14 doesn't have much lower static pressure than the P14, and most, if not all of the static pressure difference likely comes from the A14 having a lower RPM than the P14(1500 vs 1700). At higher RPM's, for example, NF-A14 industrialPPC-2000, has a static pressure of 4.18 mm at 2000RPM, which is the same as the P14 Max at 2800RPM.

Everyone really loves Arctic, but it seems to be more about the value than the actual fans themselves. They're great value, and they move air well, but I've personally bought Arctic fans(P120's) that resonated at certain RPM's in a case I owned, which drove me crazy. Not sure what you mean about the warranty though, the P14's have the same warranty as all Noctua fans, 6 years.

Such a useless cooler. Most sff cases allow for coolers with a maximum height in the 60-70mm interval. There is then a second category of true sff cases that need coolers below 50mm and then a third one with cooler heights that stop at 130-135mm. And then there is the rest. Very few care about the 70-100mm space because there are very few cases in that area (there is SSUPD Meshlicious, but I mean most people go for liquid cooling with that case). If you want to hit the jackpot in sff, then offer something around 60mm in height (preferably 2-3mm lower than that) with a 120mm fan. Basically beat ID-Cooling IS-55. Otherwise don't bother.

EatingDirtThe NF-A14 doesn't have much lower static pressure than the P14, and most, if not all of the static pressure difference likely comes from the A14 having a lower RPM than the P14(1500 vs 1700). At higher RPM's, for example, NF-A14 industrialPPC-2000, has a static pressure of 4.18 mm at 2000RPM, which is the same as the P14 Max at 2800RPM.

Everyone really loves Arctic, but it seems to be more about the value than the actual fans themselves. They're great value, and they move air well, but I've personally bought Arctic fans(P120's) that resonated at certain RPM's in a case I owned, which drove me crazy. Not sure what you mean about the warranty though, the P14's have the same warranty as all Noctua fans, 6 years.

Yeah, I've heard reports of some P12 5-pack fans resonating. I've bought hundreds of them and not heard it but the noise floor in the office isn't that low. The MAX fans are a different beast with very different build quality and motor hubs.

You're also right about warranty, for some reason I though Arctic were 7 year warranty but I'm mistaken, it's the same 6 years as Noctua.

Everytime Noctua releases a new product my hopes rise for a split second! Then quickly tank once I finish reading the headline...just another boring product in a long line of lamers. Still no new shiny 140mm or world crushing d15v2. Maybe they will finally get around to something interesting in the next 5 years.

BoggledBeagleIt seems that the Noctua cooler is probably a response to the cooler you mentioned. People will be willing to pay some more money for it because of the famous brand.

No surely people aren't like that!:kookoo:

One difficulty for Noctua is having been the top of the market for so long - some products from 10 years away are still cream on top alongside others. There are only so many things they can do from there. So on one hand many of their releases made very little "noise" since because they're basically side-stepping their range instead of upstepping it, on the other hand they are a conservative brand, which made a sure path for other brands willing to optimize aesthetic design and creative ways to overcome restrictions and putting out RGB offerings.

I cannot say that it is a bad business model for Noctua though, and no one in their right mind would say they couldn't have gone that way. They just won't. One could say they are a very fair brand, like they were almost inviting competition to fill out the holes out there just as much as playing in their own backyard even. And they never went out of their way to try and kill the competition. Hell, maybe they charge more because they can... but they certainly could have compressed their prices to wade out competition. They could certainly have cheaped out on material quality as well. So maybe they do charge more because they can AND because it allows for fair competition from other brands, and because it's what it should cost from them.

And we should stop with the obvious formula of people willing to pay for brands, like, with just a "period" there. If Noctua and Corsair can usually maintain higher prices for similar products or performance (and they sure don't SYSTEMATICALLY cost more neither), it's not because all of their customer base is blindly paying for the branding. They're paying for peace of mind. Anyone who had to deal with CS from such brands would actually pay a bit more for a bit less or similar performance because they have an experience of outstanding support. I remember people criticizing the same shit about EVGA, then when we learned they were basically phasing out, the whole community was actually sad in reminiscence of their own experience with EVGA customer service.

I could ask Noctua to send me a LGA 1700 bracket for my 10 years old NH-D15. Not only would they answer promptly, and ship it promptly, and not charge a dime for it, but they'll also include a "sincere thank you" note alongside installation instructions. They are PROUD that I don't need another cooler - just a goddamn bracket. They're happy to supply it.

This is no apology. I mean, precisely, there are so many options, and to each his own. Noctua certainly don't go all in our faces trying to sell more and step all over eveything else. I kind of respect that. But I also respect saving some money or going out for a nicer design from other brands. Noctua respect that as well, I believe.

Note because of the higher profile of the NH-L12Sx77 it will NOT fit in a Silverstone ML-09B. Having experienced the NH-L12S with 5950x it's a great cooler and included the AM4 offset mounts. I would expect NH-L12Sx77 to be just as satisfying. In fact I think NH-L12S did better than my NH-C14S probably because of the included fan and the AM4 offset mounting kit combined. With updraft configuration getting the heat out of the case is paramount so ducting any gap between the heatsink and vent is very helpful to exhaust without recirculating hot air back into the case.

BoggledBeagleDAMN, this is not an art piece, this is an engineered product designed to move heat from the CPU. Absence of any thermal performance specification is almost an insult.

Have you seen this? noctua.at/en/noctua-standardised-performance-rating

Quote: "By combining a measurement at a typical heat-load with a second measurement that tests the heatsinks maximum dissipation capacity, the NSPR offers a more balanced picture of heatsink performance than standard TDP ratings because it reflects both performance in standard use cases and under extreme conditions. Conducted at a stable ambient temperature of 22°C and with clearly specified, realistic parameters (typical heat-loads in the first test, target temperature of 60°C in the second test), it also avoids the pitfall of going into testing scenarios that are remote from real world applications. At the same time, like with any single-number rating, there is no way around the fact that NSPR is a simplification of the complex nature of heatsink performance. In particular, it cannot reflect the fact that cooling performance can differ between platforms, CPU series’ and even from CPU model to CPU model within a series. This is where our CPU-specific classification scheme of heatsink performance steps in."

tabascosauzAlso, anyone who believes Noctua's press release saying that the 77mm height will make for optimal thermals without "exhausting into the case" in those sandwich cases is deluding themselves. A12x15 is a solid fan but like most every other fan, it's laughably incompetent on its own at handling exhaust duty thru the heatsink and out a vented panel. Other case fans *will* have to be doing the heavy lifting - it's still a downdraft cooler.

I agree. Unless your heatsink is right up against the edge of your exhaust vent some ducting is your huckleberry. The A12x15 manages to do it fairly well for Silverstone ML09b but other cases that have gaps won't fair as well exhausting without ducting.

mxthunderI have NHL-12S on my HTPC inside silverstone Grandia 09b. Gets by for most tasks since the PC usually just sits idle or plays netflix, but I do see temps hit 100*C if I run cinebench or the kids play certain games. Need to mod a 240mm AIO into that unit soon. I dont think this new improved version will help much.

Have you tried ducting the flow? I don't see a top vent on that case like the ML-09B so ducting would take a bit more work.