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Windows 10 Security Updates to Cost $61 After 2025, $427 by 2028

Frick

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However, a dTPM chip isn't exorbitantly priced and is a suitable upgrade for many systems. It's also noteworthy that these are now eight to nine year old computers. They work, of course, which is justification enough for ongoing software support... but there's no denying they're old by now

Harder to upgrade on laptops.
 
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Harder to upgrade on laptops.

True, but most 7th gen laptops even at the budget end should already offer a fTPM. The Lenovo ideapads with Kaby Lake-U certainly do, at least.
 
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Hi,
Well atm AI is not tough to get rid of no telling when it will need altering though but I'm sure Brink will be on it hehe
Code:
Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

; Created by: Shawn Brink
; Created on: March 7, 2024
; Tutorial: https://www.elevenforum.com/t/completely-disable-and-remove-copilot-in-windows-11.23264/

[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\WindowsCopilot]
"TurnOffWindowsCopilot"=dword:00000001

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\WindowsCopilot]
"TurnOffWindowsCopilot"=dword:00000001

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Edge]
"HubsSidebarEnabled"=dword:00000000

[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\Explorer]
"DisableSearchBoxSuggestions"=dword:00000001

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\Explorer]
"DisableSearchBoxSuggestions"=dword:00000001
How long before it can’t be turned off will be the question. You can’t really kill Edge like you used to, so how long before the core features of Windows “depend” on copilot? Or maybe MS doesn’t care as long as they can still collect telemetry in the background to improve it. I think this is really what W11 is all about, helping MS with the AI push.
 

Frick

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True, but most 7th gen laptops even at the budget end should already offer a fTPM. The Lenovo ideapads with Kaby Lake-U certainly do, at least.

Sure, but my Dell E6430 from 2012 doesn't, and it's still a very capable laptop.
 
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How long before it can’t be turned off will be the question. You can’t really kill Edge like you used to, so how long before the core features of Windows “depend” on copilot? Or maybe MS doesn’t care as long as they can still collect telemetry in the background to improve it. I think this is really what W11 is all about, helping MS with the AI push.
hi,
No telling hehe
As far as edge stuff well edge update is also triggered by startup/ delayed but I'd image "I just disabled edgeupdate and edgeupdatem services so see how long they stay that way lol
As long as WaaSmedic serivice is disabled properly I'd hope the two above will stay disabled

Otherwise I've been using just these I believe W1zzard also has some good stuff for edge
Code:
rem Disable Edge Browser preload on startup. We'll never use it anyway, saves memory and startup time
reg add HKLM\Software\Policies\Microsoft\MicrosoftEdge\Main /v AllowPrelaunch /t REG_DWORD /d 0 /f
reg add HKLM\Software\Policies\Microsoft\Edge /v StartupBoostEnabled /t REG_DWORD /d 0 /f
reg add HKLM\Software\Policies\Microsoft\Edge /v BackgroundModeEnabled /t REG_DWORD /d 0 /f

rem Disable Edge Browser (Chromium) first run experience
reg add HKLM\Software\Policies\Microsoft\Edge /v HideFirstRunExperience /t REG_DWORD /d 1 /f

rem Block Edge from recreating the desktop icon on every update
reg add HKLM\Software\Policies\Microsoft\EdgeUpdate /v CreateDesktopShortcutDefault /t REG_DWORD /d 0 /f
reg add HKLM\Software\Policies\Microsoft\EdgeUpdate /v RemoveDesktopShortcutDefault /t REG_DWORD /d 1 /f

Code:
Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

; Created by: Shawn Brink
; Created on: December 12. 2022
; Tutorial: https://www.elevenforum.com/t/enable-or-disable-startup-boost-in-microsoft-edge.11116/


[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Edge]
"StartupBoostEnabled"=dword:00000000

Code:
Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

; Created by: Shawn Brink
; Created on: August 7th 2018
; Tutorial: https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/115545-enable-disable-pre-launch-microsoft-edge-windows-10-a.html


[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\MicrosoftEdge\Main]
"AllowPrelaunch"=dword:00000000
 
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I don't want AI, accounts, in computer.
 
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Sure, but my Dell E6430 from 2012 doesn't, and it's still a very capable laptop.
Yeah
It probably would surprise a lot of people how many non compliant machines are running win-11 hehe
 
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hi,
No telling hehe
As far as edge stuff well edge update is also triggered by startup/ delayed but I'd image "I just disabled edgeupdate and edgeupdatem services so see how long they stay that way lol
As long as WaaSmedic serivice is disabled properly I'd hope the two above will stay disabled

Otherwise I've been using just these I believe W1zzard also has some good stuff for edge
Code:
rem Disable Edge Browser preload on startup. We'll never use it anyway, saves memory and startup time
reg add HKLM\Software\Policies\Microsoft\MicrosoftEdge\Main /v AllowPrelaunch /t REG_DWORD /d 0 /f
reg add HKLM\Software\Policies\Microsoft\Edge /v StartupBoostEnabled /t REG_DWORD /d 0 /f
reg add HKLM\Software\Policies\Microsoft\Edge /v BackgroundModeEnabled /t REG_DWORD /d 0 /f

rem Disable Edge Browser (Chromium) first run experience
reg add HKLM\Software\Policies\Microsoft\Edge /v HideFirstRunExperience /t REG_DWORD /d 1 /f

rem Block Edge from recreating the desktop icon on every update
reg add HKLM\Software\Policies\Microsoft\EdgeUpdate /v CreateDesktopShortcutDefault /t REG_DWORD /d 0 /f
reg add HKLM\Software\Policies\Microsoft\EdgeUpdate /v RemoveDesktopShortcutDefault /t REG_DWORD /d 1 /f

Code:
Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

; Created by: Shawn Brink
; Created on: December 12. 2022
; Tutorial: https://www.elevenforum.com/t/enable-or-disable-startup-boost-in-microsoft-edge.11116/


[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Edge]
"StartupBoostEnabled"=dword:00000000

Code:
Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

; Created by: Shawn Brink
; Created on: August 7th 2018
; Tutorial: https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/115545-enable-disable-pre-launch-microsoft-edge-windows-10-a.html


[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\MicrosoftEdge\Main]
"AllowPrelaunch"=dword:00000000
Thanks for this. I was annoyed, and couldn't figure out when my GPO, no pre- loading of edge tabs & no pre launching edge at start up (not the exact policy words) , were removed from Win 10 Filtered policies list. Of course they are useless now. Thanks to you I now know the reason.

Cheers mate great stuff!!
 
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Thanks for this. I was annoyed, and couldn't figure out when my GPO, no pre- loading of edge tabs & no pre launching edge at start up (not the exact policy words) , were removed from Win 10 Filtered policies list. Of course they are useless now. Thanks to you I now know the reason.

Cheers mate great stuff!!
Hi,
There's a buffet of good stuff here :cool:
 
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Not all of them.
Well, Windows EOL is October of 2025, at that time it will have been eight years since the last supported generations of Intel and AMD processors came out.

Leaving hardware behind is not how windows has worked historically. It's been one of its biggest selling points, really. I guess in the more distant past, old hardware was mainly left behind because it was insufficient for increasingly complex basic tasks, but that's not true for a lot of the hardware W11 obsoletes. I can still photo edit and play games on Ivy Bridge E, and the hardware actually runs W11 perfectly fine when you bypass the restrictions. I'm curious if MS will backpedal a bit when W10 goes dormant and millions of PCs that can't upgrade stay in service.
In this case, Microsoft is trying to force a minimum hardware standard when it comes to security.
 
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They are nearly a decade old and can be left behind.
That's your opinion, and people have very different opinions on this matter. And I do appreciate the huge cost of maintenance, and I've experienced the effort it takes in development both for desktop software, mobile apps and even just simple websites can be more effort in testing and bugfixing than non-developers may think, so I totally get that.

But that being said, we're not talking about bringing new (big) features to an old platform here, but patching vulnerabilities as they get discovered and sometimes implementing minor things like new protocols etc. And for MS, with the kind of resources they have at their disposal, and the amount of resources they spend on "nonsense" when the majority of their customers just want a "thing that works".

For consumers, I totally get the frustration. Not only are many computers working fine with the older OS version, they also may have applications or games that work better or requires this OS version. With applications there are usually newer versions (which may of course cost money), but with games especially, should people be "forced" to abandon their game collection? Sure, they can continue using the computer "air-gapped", but is it really fair to "leave them behind" and basically force them to eventually disconnect them from the Internet to continue using them? (like you basically have to do if you want to use XP or 98 today)

And for the enterprise market too, whether it's fully custom or specific software developed for a platform, then they have to spend significant resources to redevelop and certify the software because the OS changed. It can get pretty costly, and there are a lot of odd hardware in use out there. Hopefully some are smarter than to use Windows in critical environments, but unfortunately it happens a lot…

I've argued before that MS should probably move to two tiers of Windows products, a "new" branch which requires hardware newer than 3-5 years (and probably not the low-end crap that's new), and a "legacy" branch which supports as far back as possible (like Athlon 64).

While Linux may be appealing to those wanting to keep old hardware in use (not because of old software), as current distros support anything Athlon 64 and newer (so approaching 21 years of support), things aren't perfect there either. If you for a specific reason want to keep the OS, then it's about 10 years (Ubuntu LTS with subscription), so fairly similar to Windows. But Linux has one large advantage; APIs are much more stable, and most often backwards compatible, so software generally works better in a newer OS version than what Windows users are used to. And in the off chance a library isn't backwards compatible, it's most often achievable to link in old libraries (in worst case recompile them) and get stuff working with some tinkering.

But for the most part, users clinging to old OS versions isn't a think among Linux users as it is with Windows users, which brings me to what I believe would be the best solution; better compatibility and less bloat. With all the billions MS wastes, they could have achieved support for hardware similar to what Linux does, acceptable performance on older hardware, and better software support. This I would believe would remove most people's "hesitance" in upgrading.

Well, Windows EOL is October of 2025, at that time it will have been eight years since the last supported generations of Intel and AMD processors came out.
Yeah, but don't forget that even the big computer vendors usually lag a bit behind, and some lineups can be ~1.5-2 years before they stopped selling the "unsupported" hardware, so there could be a lot of ~6 year old PCs out there without support.
 
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I got Windows 11 pro final working on my gamer box. Took me almost 3 years to find all the crap in it how to remove the junk stop MS from tracking. Also all the things that was easy to do in networking in windows 10 was gone in windows 11. Basicly MS wanted to make sure no user had control anymore. Explorer patcher I do use does give me the control I need for many things like taskbar moving, restoring the quick launch back. etc etc. But the other settings I missed was background apps in windows 10 it was simple to turn off now you have to do it in the group policy editior. MS talk security but then use no security at all for themselfs tracking you. I been working out more bugs and writing down fixes. I'm waiting to see what Windows 11 LTSC will be like. Most all my OS's run LTSC for the reason no apps no games no junk. My Windows 11 pro is only a test run for now.
 

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Windows 10 still represents 66% of all windows versions.

I have several PCs and one has a Haswell CPU that is not supported by Windows 11.
But it performs very well for its usage : surfing, YouTube, some movies and series, basic Excel or Word.
And next year, it will not suddenly start to be inadequate, because there is a limit to the processing power you need to do these things.

This whole Windows 11 cr*p is completely an anti-consumer play.

I am not looking to spend $1000+ on a new machine to have a worse experience. And I suspect a lot of people are in the same state of mind. Otherwise Windows 11 adoption numbers wouldn't be what they are.
 
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I got Windows 11 pro final working on my gamer box. Took me almost 3 years to find all the crap in it how to remove the junk stop MS from tracking. Also all the things that was easy to do in networking in windows 10 was gone in windows 11. Basicly MS wanted to make sure no user had control anymore. Explorer patcher I do use does give me the control I need for many things like taskbar moving, restoring the quick launch back. etc etc. But the other settings I missed was background apps in windows 10 it was simple to turn off now you have to do it in the group policy editior. MS talk security but then use no security at all for themselfs tracking you. I been working out more bugs and writing down fixes. I'm waiting to see what Windows 11 LTSC will be like. Most all my OS's run LTSC for the reason no apps no games no junk. My Windows 11 pro is only a test run for now.
Explorer patcher is a god send on Windows 11, the dev must be a machine as I expect every update that even touches the windows shell creates work for him.
 
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(and people liked XP more mostly because Vista was such a hardware hog in comparision, "what do you mean 512MB RAM is not enough, what BS is this?"
Not just Vista, anything based on NT6! NT6 is big in comparison to NT5x. NT6/10 (also 11, as it's based on 10) loves to gobble up RAM like no tomorrow!
 
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How long before it can’t be turned off will be the question. You can’t really kill Edge like you used to, so how long before the core features of Windows “depend” on copilot? Or maybe MS doesn’t care as long as they can still collect telemetry in the background to improve it. I think this is really what W11 is all about, helping MS with the AI push.
Hi,
Disabled both edge services 2 days ago and they are both still disabled
I restarted/ shutdown cold start at least 4 times since then to
Whole key seems to be disabling WaaSMedic service this one turns on the services back on
So this app does make it possible thankfully :cool:
Windows Update Blocker v1.8

1712497599611.png
1712497679849.png
1712497742396.png

Explorer patcher is a god send on Windows 11, the dev must be a machine as I expect every update that even touches the windows shell creates work for him.
Yep only other free utility I use to get rid of the silly ass default start menu developer is on elevenforum.com
 
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Windows 10 still represents 66% of all windows versions.

I have several PCs and one has a Haswell CPU that is not supported by Windows 11.
But it performs very well for its usage : surfing, YouTube, some movies and series, basic Excel or Word.
And next year, it will not suddenly start to be inadequate, because there is a limit to the processing power you need to do these things.

This whole Windows 11 cr*p is completely an anti-consumer play.

I am not looking to spend $1000+ on a new machine to have a worse experience. And I suspect a lot of people are in the same state of mind. Otherwise Windows 11 adoption numbers wouldn't be what they are.
If you use Rufus to make your 11 installer, you can bypass these MS-imposed limits and run 11 anyway. I did just that on an Ivy Bridge E setup. It runs 11 just as well as every other OS that came before it.
 
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I am using Windows 11 for more than 1 year and I think it is unfinished. The GUI is not consistent (if you want to reach out deeper settings you will get the old layouts, but the new layout is big and it has less thing to do)
Also the "overhauled" Terminal is not compatible with several applications so I ended up uninstalling it and using the legacy Command Prompt. I really wanted to like this but I consider Windows 10 a better OS overall in terms of GUI and usability.
 
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I am using Windows 11 for more than 1 year and I think it is unfinished. The GUI is not consistent (if you want to reach out deeper settings you will get the old layouts, but the new layout is big and it has less thing to do)
Also the "overhauled" Terminal is not compatible with several applications so I ended up uninstalling it and using the legacy Command Prompt. I really wanted to like this but I consider Windows 10 a better OS overall in terms of GUI and usability.
I can't think of a Windows UI that has ever really felt completed. You can still find remnants of an old control panel in most of them that harkens back to the design first seen in Windows Vista. MS just changes the UI too much, and it's obvious all the departments aren't working together to achieve consistency. I mean, MS Office has always departed from the standard UI design language. The best you can hope for is that you don't notice the inconsistencies everyday, as that's about the time MS stops trying and changes things again.
 
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I am using Windows 11 for more than 1 year and I think it is unfinished. The GUI is not consistent (if you want to reach out deeper settings you will get the old layouts, but the new layout is big and it has less thing to do)
Also the "overhauled" Terminal is not compatible with several applications so I ended up uninstalling it and using the legacy Command Prompt. I really wanted to like this but I consider Windows 10 a better OS overall in terms of GUI and usability.
I'm kinda curious what specific apps broke with the new Terminal. I figured that it was just some fancy GUI and it wouldn't interfere with anything, but it doesn't seem to be the case according to you.

I can't think of a Windows UI that has ever really felt completed. You can still find remnants of an old control panel in most of them that harkens back to the design first seen in Windows Vista. MS just changes the UI too much, and it's obvious all the departments aren't working together to achieve consistency. I mean, MS Office has always departed from the standard UI design language. The best you can hope for is that you don't notice the inconsistencies everyday, as that's about the time MS stops trying and changes things again.
There are also things that really need no change, either because they work fine as they are, such as the disk format UI that's been exactly the same since Windows 95 or so, or any change would straight up be detrimental for whatever reason, which could be the case of the Management Console.

At most, you could find Windows to have been the most "consistent" somewhere in the pre-Vista era (most likely with Windows 2000 before the Windows XP theme stuff came in).
 
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I'm kinda curious what specific apps broke with the new Terminal. I figured that it was just some fancy GUI and it wouldn't interfere with anything, but it doesn't seem to be the case according to you.


There are also things that really need no change, either because they work fine as they are, such as the disk format UI that's been exactly the same since Windows 95 or so, or any change would straight up be detrimental for whatever reason, which could be the case of the Management Console.

At most, you could find Windows to have been the most "consistent" somewhere in the pre-Vista era (most likely with Windows 2000 before the Windows XP theme stuff came in).
Yeah, the problem was, MS decided to change them, but only part way, leaving some options in the old control panel, or referencing an old UI popping up from the new Settings (like advanced power management). They really just do it to themselves sometimes!
 
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I remember getting the upgrade message for W11 and needing a TPM as per their requirements. So $20 later had the module installed only to be told my CPU wasn't supported! IIRC it only said CPU with minimum of 2 cores and 1GHz at the time. So wasted $20 it seems and as my HW works well enough for my needs I will not be spending 100's of dollars on a newer system and don't feel like bypassing those requirements to run an out of spec system.
 
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I'm kinda curious what specific apps broke with the new Terminal. I figured that it was just some fancy GUI and it wouldn't interfere with anything, but it doesn't seem to be the case according to you.
Octave (Mathematics programming) and I had also problems with some Linux ported programs. Probably the devs programmed with old windows and they had this dependency.
 
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That's your opinion, and people have very different opinions on this matter. And I do appreciate the huge cost of maintenance, and I've experienced the effort it takes in development both for desktop software, mobile apps and even just simple websites can be more effort in testing and bugfixing than non-developers may think, so I totally get that.

But that being said, we're not talking about bringing new (big) features to an old platform here, but patching vulnerabilities as they get discovered and sometimes implementing minor things like new protocols etc. And for MS, with the kind of resources they have at their disposal, and the amount of resources they spend on "nonsense" when the majority of their customers just want a "thing that works".

Well, it is objectively a true statement that the hardware that is last supported in Windows 11 will be nearly a decade old at that point. And who is going to pay for those new patching vulnerabilities as they get discovered? In order to make that business model work you need to be on subscription model similar to Office 365. If you don't do a subscription model then how many years should an operating system be supported for? Right now, Microsoft is doing 10 years, I don't know of any other software company that supports a product with monthly patches for 10 years that isn't a subscription model.

Protocols are not "small things", chances are if you are "adding support" for a new protocol you are then decommissioning the deprecated protocol and have to update all of the components within that operating system that now have to support the latest protocol, otherwise you now have to "provide" support for a deprecated protocol that the protocol developers won't be supporting anymore. In which case it makes no rational or business sense to spend resources like that.

But let say you are not decommissioning anything and this is a brand-new protocol, that is a new feature at this point and that new feature is now increasing the surface area of attack, which now is only increasing the costs to provide support for an operating system that isn't on a subscription model. Unless of course you are planning on adding a new feature and then never providing any additional support for it in which case it is hard to make sure "it just works"

What do you call nonsense?

For consumers, I totally get the frustration. Not only are many computers working fine with the older OS version, they also may have applications or games that work better or requires this OS version. With applications there are usually newer versions (which may of course cost money), but with games especially, should people be "forced" to abandon their game collection? Sure, they can continue using the computer "air-gapped", but is it really fair to "leave them behind" and basically force them to eventually disconnect them from the Internet to continue using them? (like you basically have to do if you want to use XP or 98 today)

If those customers are not paying a subscription of some sort to pay for ongoing patching support for Windows 10, it is more than fair to "leave them behind" after 119+ months of security patches from when the product was originally released. More than fair!

This is like Windows XP all over again with those users screaming bloody murder but when they made the switch to Windows 7 they somehow magically survived!

And for the enterprise market too, whether it's fully custom or specific software developed for a platform, then they have to spend significant resources to redevelop and certify the software because the OS changed. It can get pretty costly, and there are a lot of odd hardware in use out there. Hopefully some are smarter than to use Windows in critical environments, but unfortunately it happens a lot…\
As with any professional software in an enterprise environment the justification for sale is that it reduces IT support help desk calls, this includes security and malware, and or it makes the individual employees more productive via new features.

Businesses that refuse to invest in their IT departments deserve to be left behind.

I've argued before that MS should probably move to two tiers of Windows products, a "new" branch which requires hardware newer than 3-5 years (and probably not the low-end crap that's new), and a "legacy" branch which supports as far back as possible (like Athlon 64).

Will only work with a subscription model.

Yeah, but don't forget that even the big computer vendors usually lag a bit behind, and some lineups can be ~1.5-2 years before they stopped selling the "unsupported" hardware, so there could be a lot of ~6 year old PCs out there without support.
So, in other words they received extremely outdated hardware for cheap in which the primary use case for those machines is going to be web browsing....in which case they would be better off with a Chromebook.
 
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Well, it is objectively a true statement that the hardware that is last supported in Windows 11 will be nearly a decade old at that point. And who is going to pay for those new patching vulnerabilities as they get discovered? In order to make that business model work you need to be on subscription model similar to Office 365. If you don't do a subscription model then how many years should an operating system be supported for? Right now, Microsoft is doing 10 years, I don't know of any other software company that supports a product with monthly patches for 10 years that isn't a subscription model.

Protocols are not "small things", chances are if you are "adding support" for a new protocol you are then decommissioning the deprecated protocol and have to update all of the components within that operating system that now have to support the latest protocol, otherwise you now have to "provide" support for a deprecated protocol that the protocol developers won't be supporting anymore. In which case it makes no rational or business sense to spend resources like that.

But let say you are not decommissioning anything and this is a brand-new protocol, that is a new feature at this point and that new feature is now increasing the surface area of attack, which now is only increasing the costs to provide support for an operating system that isn't on a subscription model. Unless of course you are planning on adding a new feature and then never providing any additional support for it in which case it is hard to make sure "it just works"

What do you call nonsense?



If those customers are not paying a subscription of some sort to pay for ongoing patching support for Windows 10, it is more than fair to "leave them behind" after 119+ months of security patches from when the product was originally released. More than fair!

This is like Windows XP all over again with those users screaming bloody murder but when they made the switch to Windows 7 they somehow magically survived!


As with any professional software in an enterprise environment the justification for sale is that it reduces IT support help desk calls, this includes security and malware, and or it makes the individual employees more productive via new features.

Businesses that refuse to invest in their IT departments deserve to be left behind.



Will only work with a subscription model.


So, in other words they received extremely outdated hardware for cheap in which the primary use case for those machines is going to be web browsing....in which case they would be better off with a Chromebook.
Best I can think of is the Mac Pro 2013, which can run Monterey, which is still actively supported by Apple, likely until macOS 15 comes out. But really that’s about as old as it gets outside of Windows.
 
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